Widening access to medicine

[Mukhtar]

I remember hearing a news report which suggested that students from lower socioeconomic backgrounds were finding it increasingly difficult to get into the "top" courses like law, medicine and dentistry. Do you think that this is the case? If so do you think something should be done to change this? What would you do? Would you consider reducing grade requirements? Would you seek to ensure that a set number of students from poorer backgrounds are represented in medical school? Finally, what is the importance of it to you; do you feel that it is important to overall patient care? It will be excellent to hear some of your thoughts on this topic.

[michelle.dorrington]

Personally, coming from a lower socioeconomic background (single parent family with no contact with other parent and a low income that qualifies me for £20 EMA) I am finding it more difficult to get all the required elements together to get into Medicine. My AS module grades in January were not as good as I was expecting as I work all weekend, to get money, to make it possible for me to be able to travel to do work experience/voluntary work so I do not have as much time to study. Also, not knowing anyone in the medical professions I have found it difficult to get work experience, with one GP surgery even saying they wont take me unless I know someone who works at that surgery! My local hospital has a good work experience/student volunteer programme in place but this is an hours bus ride and a 20 minute walk from my house, so fitting this in during the week, along with studying is difficult. Also not having any family members who have been to university I am a bit apprehensive on what to expect and how to cope with things like finance.

On the other hand my local university, Southampton, has some good provisions in for those from lower socioeconomic backgrounds. Recently I attended a week at the university where we (myself and others in a similar situation) spent the week living at the university with current university mentors and had the chance to experience some healthcare university courses. This was a great insight into what some of university life is like. I am looking at applying to the Widening Access course at Southampton which has lower grade entry requirements (BCC) as long as you meet some selection criteria but you spend the first year getting your science skills up to the same level as those who enter with A grades while experiencing uni life with 3 days a week of lectures etc and 4 days a week work and really experience uni life.

I think that more of these courses should be available around the country and more spaces available on them as, at Southampton, there are only 30 spaces. Those who come from lower socioeconomic backgrounds should be given more opportunities to get into competitive courses as, with widening access courses they are spending more time at university after entering with lower grades but coming out at the same level as people on standard uni courses. I feel that it is important to patient care to have doctors from a variety of backgrounds, but most importantly those who actually care about the lives of patients.

Hope some of this makes sense and puts across my view on the matter....probably didn't answer much of what your were looking for!

[Mukhtar]

Hi and welcome to UKMS. Thank you for your post and sharing some of your thoughts with us on a very important subject. I do wonder sometimes if the entrance requirements for medicine are really necessary for the course. Medicine is difficult but does it require the top grade at A Levels to do it? I honestly don't think it does and I think that this does limit a huge number of potentially good students from applying. Is it fair to compare a student studying at Eaton to that of a student studying in an inner city comprehensive school? But the big question is how far should you go to attempt to bring balance to the situation and ensure that your medical school is producing doctors from all sections of society, from the very rich to the very poor?

[meccameadoc]

I believe you have a point about the grade boundaries. I was speaking with the admissions officer from Lancaster Uni a while back and she said that increasing the boundary just send out the wrong message, and put a lot of people off applying (a lot of people who would make perfect doctors)...but with the substantial amount of people applying to do medicine they do need something which means they can have the cream of the crop.

The only way in which you could widen access is by producing courses for medicine that only allow those from a lower socioeconomic class, like myself, to apply (or having a set number of places specially for those of a lower socioeconomic class), this however would be unfair and unrepresentative. It would also mean that those from higher socioeconomic classes who are just as capable arent given the chance.

On the work experience front (michelle.dorrington), I know from first hand experience how hard it is to obtain. However, medical schools do not specify that you need direct medical experience (ie at a surgery or hospital) they just would like people who have experience of caring for people, and working with people. This kind of experience can be gained from some community work you do in school, work you do through your part time job (in a shop you can say you've worked with the public, so you have gained communication skills and confidence) or just by being part of a club such as Snt Johns Ambulance or a Youth Club. Medical schools know that not everyone can get all the required work experience, so they look for the interpersonal skills and how you have gained them not neccaserily the work experience.

Personally I think it is a pretty hard job trying to be representative of the whole of society in medicine, partly because of the sheer number of applicants, and even the current measure to widen access have been shown not to work...so if the experts cannot get it right, i dont know who can.

[Alcimedes]

Personally, coming from a lower socioeconomic background (single parent family with no contact with other parent and a low income that qualifies me for £20 EMA) I am finding it more difficult to get all the required elements together to get into Medicine. My AS module grades in January were not as good as I was expecting as I work all weekend, to get money, to make it possible for me to be able to travel to do work experience/voluntary work so I do not have as much time to study. Also, not knowing anyone in the medical professions I have found it difficult to get work experience, with one GP surgery even saying they wont take me unless I know someone who works at that surgery! My local hospital has a good work experience/student volunteer programme in place but this is an hours bus ride and a 20 minute walk from my house, so fitting this in during the week, along with studying is difficult. Also not having any family members who have been to university I am a bit apprehensive on what to expect and how to cope with things like finance.

On the other hand my local university, Southampton, has some good provisions in for those from lower socioeconomic backgrounds. Recently I attended a week at the university where we (myself and others in a similar situation) spent the week living at the university with current university mentors and had the chance to experience some healthcare university courses. This was a great insight into what some of university life is like. I am looking at applying to the Widening Access course at Southampton which has lower grade entry requirements (BCC) as long as you meet some selection criteria but you spend the first year getting your science skills up to the same level as those who enter with A grades while experiencing uni life with 3 days a week of lectures etc and 4 days a week work and really experience uni life.

I think that more of these courses should be available around the country and more spaces available on them as, at Southampton, there are only 30 spaces. Those who come from lower socioeconomic backgrounds should be given more opportunities to get into competitive courses as, with widening access courses they are spending more time at university after entering with lower grades but coming out at the same level as people on standard uni courses. I feel that it is important to patient care to have doctors from a variety of backgrounds, but most importantly those who actually care about the lives of patients.

Hope some of this makes sense and puts across my view on the matter....probably didn't answer much of what your were looking for!

I got two offers of BBB through widening access schemes. I had to attend extra summer schools/ do extra exam and write 2 essays which were used to check we had the potential to do well on the medicine course. Newcastle has run the scheme for a few years and they have monitored the students who got into med through it. those who got help due to coming from lower socio-economic backgrounds have done equal to or usually better in each year than the rest of their year.
the main problem I found was that no-one could give advice on all the extra things I needed to do. the careers dept were kind but useless and I had to sort everything out myself. I was always playing catch-up as those from other schools knew what the extra expectations were.
by the way, Southampton is in a mutual recognition scheme with Newcastle, Manchester, Leeds and some others so it could send a form to other unis asking for special consideration for you (that's how I also got offers from Leeds and Manchester). I can send details if you want

[michelle.dorrington]

by the way, Southampton is in a mutual recognition scheme with Newcastle, Manchester, Leeds and some others so it could send a form to other unis asking for special consideration for you (that's how I also got offers from Leeds and Manchester). I can send details if you want

If you could send me details that would be amazing! I did better in my AS's than I expected so am a bit happier applying to some AAB uni's but I am so determined/passionate about being a doctor that it doesn't matter to me how long I spend at uni/training, hence why I am still going to apply to some schemes like Southampton's as a backup if nothing more, and if I qualify I don't see why not!